What would it take... (2024)

I enjoyed my time racing the flatty on a 1/10 asphalt oval.... Most of the history has been hashed/rehashed here.

I wonder....what would it take to bring the Flathead back?

Cheap billet blocks? Chinese knock-off run of 5000 units?

New modular case design with billet cylinder, billet lower end?

Further, what would it take to convince builders and racers to migrate back to it from the clone?

Just something I was pondering. What do you think? Nothing sounds like a field of flatty's syncing up down a straight, tho.... Just like nothing sounds like a bunch of 100cc 2 strokes...

I could be wrong but the Honda and Clones are the only engines of that size. All the major brand including Briggs uses a Clone for their power equipment. Here's why that is problem for any new or old engine: in past as it is now, distribution(accessibility) and cost drives karting. When the flathead was at its height they had better distribution(pretty much any lawnmower shop and kart shop had them, not to mention the millions produced over decades) and they were relatively inexpensive(considering inflation they are more expensive than the current predator and clones).

The clone are now in an even better situation because their is no real alternative so there is little to no competition and finding stock and aftermarket parts is very easy and cheap. Even within the clone, the Predator is taking over more market space than the 196 because of cost and accessibility. Having support from kart shops is less important today than its been probably ever and I'm sure a lot of people will hate that I say that but tracks run the Predator because that's what racers want to race and they race it because it's cheap. Another problem would be how many people have the experience or knowledge to build and rebuild flatheads? It's been over 20 years since the Animal was introduced and the GX160/200 has been used for even longer. My point is we are several racing generations removed from the flathead era and newer builders may only have OHV experience.

Overall I think there is a lack of knowledge and experience because many track don't have trained officials that can tech engines properly and have starting leaning toward a governed or rev limited engines to reduce tech procedures to a visual and rpm check. Again, Harbor Freight to some extent is ahead of the curve to create an alternative to the LO206 that is less expensive.

Let's dream and say we could revive the flathead, the 4-cycle market especially on dirt is extremely fragmented and this would only make it worse.

Just my two cents.

Ted Hamilton said:

I enjoyed my time racing the flatty on a 1/10 asphalt oval.... Most of the history has been hashed/rehashed here.

I wonder....what would it take to bring the Flathead back?

Cheap billet blocks? Chinese knock-off run of 5000 units?

New modular case design with billet cylinder, billet lower end?

Further, what would it take to convince builders and racers to migrate back to it from the clone?

Just something I was pondering. What do you think? Nothing sounds like a field of flatty's syncing up down a straight, tho.... Just like nothing sounds like a bunch of 100cc 2 strokes...

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You dont need any of that. There is a metric ton of flathead blocks, carbs, heads, shrouds, flywheels, etc.

Manufacturers need to make gaskets, rings, pistons, cranks, valves, springs. The problem isnt the engine itself, flatheads are a dime for two dozen....its the internals.

JPMKarting said:

You dont need any of that. There is a metric ton of flathead blocks, carbs, heads, shrouds, flywheels, etc.

Manufacturers need to make gaskets, rings, pistons, cranks, valves, springs. The problem isnt the engine itself, flatheads are a dime for two dozen....its the internals.

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I will add to JPM by saying that in observation the parts for flatheads is drying up and a lot of kart suppliers are discounting and discontinuing their support of the flathead. I have seen so many internals on clearance for half to a quarter of the price it was 5-10 years ago. But there are many of us older racers who still own everything needed to get the class running but with the availability of parts drying up for how long.

I see the flathead as a parallel to the old Ford flatheads (or even consider the small block Chevrolet engines.) By design, they have lived their course as newer technology (ohv) came on the scene. Sure, we could go back to it, but as Mark said -- the newer generation would be lost trying to figure out what us old codgers are doing with intentional valve float.

There are a few internals that are hard to source (new.) That doesn't mean they can't be found - but to become popular again would mean firing up production of said parts to a level to accommodate the demand. Burris has had reproduction cylinder heads, pistons, rings, and sidecovers made. Dixie had cranks and sheet metal made back in the day. If there is enough demand, I'm sure someone will pick up the ball and carry it forward. Anyone wanting to fund such a project - I'd be glad to work with them.

I've always said that if Briggs had chosen to have the Chinese reproduce the flathead some 20 years or more ago now, we might not have ever seen the 196 clones in our sport. They chose to support the animal offshoot from their Intek line and the racers balked at the initial price despite significant performance increase. The rest is history. I really don't think that you'll ever get the entire industry to turn back to a previous engine package, whether it be flatheads, Yamahas, McCulloch's, etc. or even the clone at this point. Karting has always had a trend toward "cheap" when it comes to engines and that's where we're at again today with Predator and other sealed/governed engines.

For the purists in our sport, there will always be a soft spot for the venerable old flathead. They will continue to come out of hibernation for a money race or two each summer for years to come. We've built more limiteds in the past couple of years as well. Vintage racers have also started accepting the flathead which has helped bring it back. I think that's the realistic future for the flathead.

One thing for certain - we will still be here building and rebuilding flatheads for many years to come. I am determined to be the last man standing when it comes to working with this engine platform.

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Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
35 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com

Ted Hamilton said:

Chinese knock-off run of 5000 units?

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Wouldn’t that just be a flathead clone? Ie same issues as OHV, but different valve orientation.

flattop1 said:

A Flacone ....

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Easy now…. Hold your tongue

sundog said:

I race model airplanes and we run into the same thing. Allot of wondeful old well made engines that are completely obsolete.

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Pylon racing, control-line racing, or something else?

PDQ Flying Clown with OS Max .18TZ I'm the pitman.

sundog said:

PDQ Flying Clown with OS Max .18TZ I'm the pitman.

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That making me dizzy, just watching it!